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 [Finished] Dewpider

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bash678
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PostSubject: [Finished] Dewpider   Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:07 pm


DEWPIDER



http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-sm/751.shtml


Proposed Sets

Set 1 : Attacker
Ability: Water Bubble
Nature: Brave
Item: Bottle Cap
IV spread: 31/31/31/31/31/0
Hidden Power: Not Relevant
Egg Moves:
- Power Split
- Aurora Beam
- Stockpile
- Spit Up

Set 2 : Defensive/Tank
Ability: Water Bubble
Nature: Relaxed
Item: Bottle Cap
IV spread: 31/31/31/31/31/XX
Hidden Power: Not Relevant
Egg Moves:
- Power Split
- Aurora Beam
- Stockpile
- Spit Up

I'll start with one of my new faves this generation - this hilariously gigantic spider. Ironically, when a spider is at least the size of a person's hand, my arachnophobia kicks in. But this one seems cool, only because a spider of this proportion (thankfully) does not exist in real life.

I'm leaning towards Brave for the attacking set (with 0 Speed IV for TR) while Relaxed for the defensive set (though speed IV is just XX).


Last edited by bash678 on Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:57 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:31 pm

I love this thing too. One of my favorites this gen, probably second to Tapu Koko and A-Marowak.

I'm wondering about Water Absorb vs just making a Brave set alongside an Adamant set. What would you see it running if Relaxed is the choice? I see Infestation/Toxic as a thing, anything else?

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:45 pm

Oh yeah, bash, I have one of these, male, that has Aurora Beam, Stockpile, and Spit Up if you're interested. It's in a net ball too if you want that.

I will need it back once you're done though lol.

Also, I think that Gold Bottle Cap/Bottle Cap are going to be the most sought after item we can send. I have over 4500 BP available if people need battle items.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:55 pm

Don't do Water Absorb, it's just not worth it as he main use is scald but Water Bubble makes you immune to burn. I'm have Water Bubble on both sets. The second can be an Entrainment set. Think bulky support with Rain Dance, Entrainment with a TR Poke with Surf/Muddy Water.

Could be very good in doubles with that set.

Also if you are looking for a good ball, Net, Beast, and Moon all feel like great picks.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:01 am

Bunselpower wrote:
I love this thing too. One of my favorites this gen, probably second to Tapu Koko and A-Marowak.

I'm wondering about Water Absorb vs just making a Brave set alongside an Adamant set. What would you see it running if Relaxed is the choice? I see Infestation/Toxic as a thing, anything else?

It has pretty decent stats on the special side, so I thought I'd prop up the physical side as well. And yes as a trapper for Singles but also a defensive mon in Doubles with support moves, like Wide Guard, Mirror Coat. Water Absorb for the off chance an opponent surfs.

I can do away Water Absorb for the group, but if both sets are just Water Bubble, then breeding one set is enough since they're basically the same except for the nature. In that case, Brave would suffice.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:06 am

Bunselpower wrote:
Oh yeah, bash, I have one of these, male, that has Aurora Beam, Stockpile, and Spit Up if you're interested. It's in a net ball too if you want that.

I will need it back once you're done though lol.

Also, I think that Gold Bottle Cap/Bottle Cap are going to be the most sought after item we can send. I have over 4500 BP available if people need battle items.

So you're into balls now. Haha. I did catch my in-game Tarenbulle (Araquanid) in a Net Ball. Seemed appropriate.

Yeah, that would be helpful. And I'll gladly give it back.

I think if you have BP from Pokébank that you've earned while using it during last generation, you can transfer them to the game.

Yes, Bottle Caps are indispensable. If we can't think of an appropriate item, then that's our go-to item, like last gen's Master Ball.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Fri Jan 27, 2017 5:19 am

BlueDryBones1 wrote:
Don't do Water Absorb, it's just not worth it as he main use is scald but Water Bubble makes you immune to burn. I'm have Water Bubble on both sets. The second can be an Entrainment set. Think bulky support with Rain Dance, Entrainment with a TR Poke with Surf/Muddy Water.

Could be very good in doubles with that set.

Also if you are looking for a good ball, Net, Beast, and Moon all feel like great picks.

Two sets with Water Bubble is just a simple nature change, which in this case Brave is superior to Adamant. Though it makes breeding easier, it comes off as redundant and unexciting.

If you're looking for bulky support in Rain in doubles, wouldn't Water Absorb benefit more from a partner's Surf? Plus, you don't have to worry about Scald (immunity) and the opponent might not even think of firing off a Will-O-Wisp because they might assume it's running Water Bubble.

Entrainment is a good move, though.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:16 am

Where do you think my 4500 BP came from lol...

And yes, I am now into balls because you can't trade anything without them. Last gen they were hard to get but this gen they're too easy so everyone wants them.

My problem with water absorb is that if you're looking for a surf partner, that gives you two water types out on the field. And tapu koko will just blaze right through.

I do agree with the assessment of just doing then brave set though if we don’t do water absorb. And I guess I do see how water absorb can potentially work. The problem is though, water absorb is a good ability, so you don’t want to Entrainment the opponent with that. However, using water bubble on something with a big attack could benefit your team, even at the expense of this thing. Hm...

Also, just so you’re aware, mirror coat isn’t a support move. You can use it on an assault vest set.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:48 am

Bunselpower wrote:
Where do you think my 4500 BP came from lol...
I thought you did the Battle Tree.

Bunselpower wrote:

And yes, I am now into balls because you can't trade anything without them. Last gen they were hard to get but this gen they're too easy so everyone wants them.

I will be honest though, I started getting into balls too because trading is difficult without them.

Bunselpower wrote:

My problem with water absorb is that if you're looking for a surf partner, that gives you two water types out on the field. And tapu koko will just blaze right through.

We can always find an argument that another Pokémon will easily destroy whatever set we have in mind. Anyway, there's Gastrodon, but I see the point since almost everyone runs Koko.

Bunselpower wrote:

I do agree with the assessment of just doing then brave set though if we don’t do water absorb. And I guess I do see how water absorb can potentially work. The problem is though, water absorb is a good ability, so you don’t want to Entrainment the opponent with that. However, using water bubble on something with a big attack could benefit your team, even at the expense of this thing. Hm...

I could be wrong but I think Blue meant Entrainment Water Bubble since he advocated for Water Bubble. Anyway, I see that Water Bubble > Water Absorb, so one Brave set is fine.

Bunselpower wrote:

Also, just so you’re aware, mirror coat isn’t a support move. You can use it on an assault vest set.

Ah yes, right. Lol. My bad. Though this came off a tad patronizing.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Fri Jan 27, 2017 8:55 am

Oh no, that wasn’t the point of the mirror coat comment, I didn’t take it as patronizing, I didn’t realize until like two weeks ago that you could use it on that type of set.

And yeah, the tapu koko comment wasn’t that I found this one Pokémon that beats the set, you’re right, theres always something like that. The point was that its an incredibly common Pokémon.

Lots of miscommunication to start off the session. Must be an international thing lol.

Great to have you back bash.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:12 pm

Yeah, a bit of miscommunication there, but everything's good. I'm sorry Bunsel for inadvertently taking it the wrong way.

I've thought about it and a lot of points are stacked in Water Bubble's favor and since it is just a simple nature change, I can breed both Water Bubble sets.

The first set is surely Brave with 31/31/31/31/31/0 for TR.

Will the second set be Adamant or will it be a defensive nature (e.g. Relaxed)?
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Fri Jan 27, 2017 12:46 pm

This is the problem with word comments. No nuance.

From a differential standpoint, I think relaxed would probably be the best choice. Adamant is really close to brave, and can easily be bred from it.

Now you’ve got me thinking of water absorb for the defensive set lol...

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Mon Jan 30, 2017 11:06 am

Sooo I didn't read everything because I only have a few minutes so sorry if I'm repeating what people are already saying, but I have been using this mon on Showdown in VGC and I love it so I wanted to leave my 2 cents:

1. Water Bubble is better than Water Absorb. Always.
2. Brave and relaxed are the 2 best natures.

About Relaxed: Water Bubble makes Liquidation hit so hard that even with a Relaxed nature it's more "tanky" than "defensive". Relaxed helps it take advantage of its great bulk while still dealing pretty decent damage.

I'd definitely do one Brave and one Relaxed, both with Water Bubble.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Mon Jan 30, 2017 12:25 pm

I personally think 2 TR natures are less worth tha  making one Adamant again if boh will be Water Bubble. It may be slow but you can use Para/BP to remedy that but not if you use 0 speed. Thia thing is too good to limit to TR.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:09 pm

This VGC season is all about TR, more than half the teams run it, so there really is no reason not to make every slow Pokemon as slow as they can be, even if you don't run TR yourself, because your opponents will run it.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Mon Jan 30, 2017 1:32 pm

But a world with singles and VGC, you need adamant.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:28 pm

Having both Adamant and Brave is redundant. So it's either Brave + Relaxed or Adamant + Relaxed.

In VGC Brave is tons better than Adamant, and in singles they're practically the same since let's face it, 42 speed isn't going to outspeed anything anyway. And at least with Brave you can use Scald or another special move as a filler for an Assault Vest set.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Mon Jan 30, 2017 2:45 pm

No, they aren’t practically the same. 42 isn’t fast, but is still faster than some. And running brave is a bad idea because now a bigger number of Pokémon can outrun you. Just because your slow doesn’t mean speed tiers don’t still matter.

And it still has more viable options than move slots. Liquidation, leech life, lunge, poison jab, mirror coat are all viable over scald.

From what I’m seeing, adamant and relaxed are ten two we should be breeding.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Mon Jan 30, 2017 3:51 pm

Brave is the best nature that thing can run, it would be ridiculous to skip it.

And with STAB + Water Bubble, water moves get X3 power, so they're the best thing Araquanid can run (better than super effective moves). Most sets will want both Liquidation AND Scald.

For example, here's calcs on a Clefable (i.e. super effective poison jab) without EVs


Like I said, I've been using that thing a lot on Showdown (competitively, it's my favourite mon from this gen), and found Adamant to be utterly useless. But if you guys are so keen to get an Adamant set go ahead and do Brave + Adamant and I'll powersave my own Adamant one into a Relaxed... Just don't skip its best nature.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:01 pm

Also, what's with the sudden change of mind..?

Bunselpower wrote:
From a differential standpoint, I think relaxed would probably be the best choice. Adamant is really close to brave, and can easily be bred from it.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:09 pm

Well I was speaking from a fairly disconnected point of view, more reading revealed that relaxed has a use in singles, so I figured that a dual use set would be the best, and if we're doing a 6 IV I didn't want to wish another on bash so I just went with adamant. Wasn't aware how good brave apparently is, so I'll capitulate and say that we can do brave adamant or brave relaxed.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Mon Jan 30, 2017 4:53 pm

Well to me the obvious choice is Brave + Relaxed but if anyone really is adamant about getting Adamant (look at me I'm a pun master), then sure, go with Brave + Adamant...

Or if Bash doesn't want to do 2 6IV sets and no one really wants Adamant that much then just Brave is fine too.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Tue Jan 31, 2017 6:02 am

Brave & Relaxed seems ok, though I think only the Brave one really merits a 6IV (0 Speed IV) set. The Relaxed one can have XX on its Speed IV.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:58 am

Bunselpower wrote:
Oh yeah, bash, I have one of these, male, that has Aurora Beam, Stockpile, and Spit Up if you're interested. It's in a net ball too if you want that.

I will need it back once you're done though lol.

Hey Bunsel, is this offer still on the table? If yes, I'll quickly breed an offspring and trade the parent back.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Wed Feb 01, 2017 10:15 pm

Yeah, what times are you available bash? Something tells me it may have to wait until the weekend.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:36 am

Weekend sounds good. Thanks!
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:30 am

I will be up and available to trade at around this time on Saturday and on if that works for you. Unfortunately my free time during the week doesn’t coincide with times you would probably be awake.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:10 pm

So far, that time is good. I'll let you know, though, if something comes up.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:19 pm

Hey Bunsel,

I will generally be online here, might be away from time to time but will come to check once in a while in case you will be online.

EDIT: I'll try to check tomorrow.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Sun Feb 05, 2017 8:52 am

Shoot bash sorry, my wife is sick and I totally forgot about this. I can be available for the next hour or so, and then this afternoon at about 12 Central.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Sun Feb 05, 2017 10:34 am

Don't worry about it Bunsel. I can be online now if ever you are. I'll quickly breed an offspring and trade the parent back.

I'll be in and out but will surely be back around 7pm (12 central your time)
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:26 pm

You around bash?

Starting to see the genius of the discord app lol.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:30 pm

yeah, i'm around. i'll be online.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:41 pm

Online as well

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:44 pm

I'll quickly breed an offspring. I'll send the parent after
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:50 pm

Thanks Bunsel
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Sun Feb 05, 2017 1:50 pm

You could have kept it for longer than that, all I meant was it wasn't a throw away. But thanks for the quick return.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Sun Feb 05, 2017 2:01 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
You could have kept it for longer than that, all I meant was it wasn't a throw away. But thanks for the quick return.

Haha. One egg was all I needed. Thanks again! And uhm, what is this discord thing?

EDIT: Just googled what discord is about.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Thu Feb 09, 2017 2:36 pm

Yeah, honestly from a trading and discussion standpoint it makes a lot of sense because it's real time and has an app.

Besides, the sun and Moon section of the app is basically the blue and Bunselpower breeding Bonanza, so you guys should join in.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:03 pm

This set is done.

Relaxed Dewpider is 31/31/31/31/31/XX and
Brave one is 31/31/31/31/31/0

Actually, it has been finished since a while now. But I took the time to "try" the Battle Tree. Kept losing in the 40s, longest streak I've had was 49 and lost to Mega Salamence. That instant speed buff after mega evolving is unjust. Haha. It's the salt talking.

Anyway, I'm taking a break from that damn Battle Tree.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Sun Feb 26, 2017 7:50 pm

bash678 wrote:
This set is done.

Relaxed Dewpider is 31/31/31/31/31/XX and
Brave one is 31/31/31/31/31/0

Actually, it has been finished since a while now. But I took the time to "try" the Battle Tree. Kept losing in the 40s, longest streak I've had was 49 and lost to Mega Salamence. That instant speed buff after mega evolving is unjust. Haha. It's the salt talking.

Anyway, I'm taking a break from that damn Battle Tree.

The battle tree is an electrolyte factory. It turns everything to salt. I haven't even done it but I assume it's worse than the Battle whatever from ORAS, which I hated.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:25 am

Although I've encountered fewer sublegendaries starting at the 40s, I personally find it harder than Battle Maison because they're allowed to use Mega Stones now, which wasn't the case before. And I've not only lost to Mega Salamence, I've also lost to Mega Beedrill and Mega Metagross at one point in Singles. Also, Mega Tyranitar just annoys my usual Eruption + Drought Doubles strategy.

I tried bringing in my own Mega Salamence but after a while they kept sending out Ice types.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Dewpider   Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:24 am

It didn’t even register when you said mega that they can now use mega pokes. Wow, that is harder.

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