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 [Finished] Phanpy

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Bunselpower
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PostSubject: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:01 am


Proposed Sets

Set 1 : Dem defenses
Ability: Pickup
Nature: Impish
Item: Something I make zoid attach
IV spread: 31/31/31/x/31/31
Hidden Power:
Egg Moves:
-Ice Shard
-Endeavor
-Body Slam
-Counter

Set 2 : Dem offenses
Ability: Sand Veil
Nature: Adamant
Item: Something I make zoid attach
IV spread: 31/31/31/x/31/31
Hidden Power: None
Egg Moves:
-Ice Shard
-Play Rough
-Head Smash
-Body Slam

Yet another of my favorite Pokémon, Phanpy was one of the coolest of the second generation, and one I still love to use. Super glad that I get to breed all of my favorites this round. This one shouldn't take very long at all, because it's just a simple 5 IV without any ability variation.

Not sure on the last two egg moves. I keep leaning towards Body Slam as the definite. And I don't like the recoil of Head Smash, but I don't really see the benefits of Endeavor either.

#No1Phan

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Mademoiselle C
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:27 am

Sturdy Endeavor + Ice Shard is a great combo, at least on paper, so I would go with that.

Also Adamant Donphan is just a weaker Mamoswine without the STAB on Ice Shard.

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Bunselpower
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:04 am

Yeah, I kinda feel like Head Smash works against Sturdy, so maybe Body Slam and Endeavor if no one else objects.

Adamant AV Donphan is a bulkier Mamoswine with fewer weaknesses, EdgeQuake, and a very dependable Rapid Spin.

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BlueDryBones1
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:12 am

Head Smash should stay imo. The highish HP of Donphan makes it usable with Adamant. Though this is Impish however since your breeding one set it can help those who will breed Adamant.

Body Slam's paralysis chance sounds good. If it inflicts Paralysis 0 Spe Donphan outruns +1 base 115s though hard to find a moveslot for it.

Endeavour is a tutor move so you dont really lose it for not adding it unlike the other 2 so that should be worth mentioning.

Also I think Counter deserve as mention as well. Counter is however likely more useful with Adamant, but the high HP and Sturdy means that if there is a physical Pokemon that challenges your Donphan and you know that none of your moves will do more damage you can potentially remove them.

Think of something like a Donphan vs Azumarill situation. If Donphan has Sturdy ready there is no way Azumarill will survive that matchup unless it switches out or sees it coming which is unlikely. This can save you if it Belly Drummed and you know EQ just isnt enough (unless it flinches you with Waterfall).

The only real must have for it is Ice Shard imo.

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Bunselpower
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 11:42 am

Hm, the argument for counter seems to make sense, but Donphan already struggles from 4MSS, I'm not sure that counter can ever reliably find its way onto a set. The same kind of applies to endeavor. Good idea on paper, but man, there are so many other options.

Maybe play rough is the one to get booted here?

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bash678
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:39 pm

I think the only thing going on for Play Rough (in Donphan's case) is that it's a Gen 6 egg move. I simply see it as a novelty.

Ice Shard is indeed a must. Counter is also useful and if we're including it, I say ditch Play Rough. Body Slam and Head Smash to round it off. (Endeavor can be tutored).

For the item, I can see a Weakness Policy or AV. But if you (or even Zoid - lol) have more Master Balls, I say Master Ball. We need them for the legends.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 12:43 pm

Oh, also... you took the lead now. 5 Pokémon this round vs. Ed. It's Shuffle's fault. Lol.
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Mademoiselle C
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:11 pm

I think Head Smash with Sturdy is just counterproductive (plus bad accuracy) and Endeavor is better than Counter for the purpose it wants to serve because it works with special sweepers too. Play Rough is a great move so I don't see any reason to drop it.

But apparently the only move everyone agrees with is Ice Shard, so maybe make a poll with Play Rough, Body Slam, Endeavor, Counter and Head Smash.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:33 pm

Ah polls. You great polarizer you.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 1:43 pm

Wait, head Smash has 80 accuracy? No way is that getting on here then. 90 gave it something over stone edge, but 80 with recoil is just dumb.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 2:41 pm

Personally, I want Head Smash in there to pass the egg move on another Donphan with Sand Veil. I admit, it's not popular but at least the option is there.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 4:50 pm

I started doing some thinking as to what play rough actually has over EdgeQuake, and right now, all I can think of is Heracross.

Is there any scenario where play rough gets onto a move set above earthquake, stone edge, and ice shard/knock off?

Also, is there the option to do two sets? I could put body Slam and Endeavor on a defensive set, along with play rough, and put head Smash, counter, and play rough/something else on an adamant set.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:05 pm

While we're at it, let's just make a Sturdy set and a Sand Veil set so we can get all the good egg moves and the HA. That way everyone's happy.

I don't mind which one is Adamant and which one is Impish.

(Btw Play Rough is useful to hit full health Dragons hard before finishing them with Ice Shard. That way Donphan can actually be used as a reliable counter for physical dragons.)

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:22 pm

So Impish sturdy and adamant sand veil or the other way around?

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:27 pm

Mademoiselle C wrote:

I don't mind which one is Adamant and which one is Impish.

But I'll make a poll for you. You're welcome. Razz

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 6:32 pm

I think the best way to spread egg moves would be:

Adamant: Ice Shard, Play Rough, Head Smash, Body Slam

Impish: Ice Shard, Counter, Endeavor, Body Slam

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 7:06 pm

Given the abilities of the two, that looks like the best.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:50 pm

I believe Adamant wants Counter more due to taking more damage and dealing more back. With that said Sturdy is always the superior ability and the only justification for breeding Sand Veil is just to have the HA.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:52 pm

I kinda agree with Blue that sturdy is the better ability, even if we're breeding for the adamant set. Unless Sand Veil is popular in doubles?

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 9:58 pm

Yeah, adamant does want counter, but not without sturdy. If you want to use counter with adamant, you'll have to breed another.

So do people not want sand veil? I agree that sturdy is better, but I thought this was for ha sake.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:05 pm

I'd rather have a set that's useful competitively than a set that's just for the sake of having the HA. That's just my personal opinion though, and Sand Veil might be useful in doubles, so I really don't know. That being said, I already have an Adamant Sturdy set so I'm fine with whatever you decide to breed Smile

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Tue Mar 17, 2015 10:07 pm

I agree with you on that ed.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:23 am

It's useless to have a 2nd set if it doesn't have the HA.

The main set should be Impish with Sturdy, with egg moves that can benefit from Sturdy (Counter and Endeavor).

The 2nd set is there just so we can have all the egg moves and access to the HA, and it would be Adamant just because that's the other nature Donphan can run.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Wed Mar 18, 2015 12:34 am

Right, that was my thinking. But if Sand Veil is useless, then we can still carry Sturdy. I assume it's not, because bash wants it. But I'm with ed in that we need to at least ask the question. Because Sturdy is clearly the better ability.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Wed Mar 18, 2015 1:52 am

It might not be as good as Sturdy, but I can imagine it being used anyway, it certainly isn't completely useless. And since it's the HA, it makes sense to distribute it so that we have it available. That's usually what we do when a HA is inferior but usable.

Outside of Smogon, I can see Sand Veil + Brightpowder + Substitute being somewhat of an annoyance.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Wed Mar 18, 2015 4:49 am

Just breed for Sturdy. I was going to test the Sand Veil one out. I'm the only one who wants it anyway, so I'm clearly outvoted.  But I can breed it myself, including Head Smash. It's not a problem.

I'm also fine with just a single Sturdy set for distribution.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Wed Mar 18, 2015 8:51 am

Nah, I mean it's fine to breed two for egg moves sake anyway bash, and I'm not opposed to doing it. Heck, if we do adamant sturdy, that doesn't solve our egg move problem, because adamant wants endeavor and counter.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Wed Mar 18, 2015 11:30 am

I don't see where the problem is, seriously. Like, at all.

Impish
Sturdy
- Ice Shard
- Endeavor
- Counter
- Body Slam

Adamant
Sand Veil
- Ice Shard
- Play Rough
- Head Smash
- Body Slam

These 2 sets give us every egg moves, every nature and every ability and make the most sense (counter/endeavor being paired with sturdy). And allow for every set to be bred super easily, especially if one of them is female and the other is male.

So I really don't get what you guys are even arguing about.

The only possible change is to reverse Adamant and Impish, and that's why the poll is there.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Phanpy    Fri Mar 20, 2015 10:30 am

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, this is done, and the adamant is a 6 IV, so there's that.

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