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 [Finished] Swablu

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Choose a nature for a set with Hyper Voice.
Modest (+SpAtk, -Atk)
30%
 30% [ 3 ]
Timid (+Spe, -Atk
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Bold (+Def, -Atk)
30%
 30% [ 3 ]
Calm (+SpDef, -Atk)
20%
 20% [ 2 ]
Relaxed (+Def, -Spe)
20%
 20% [ 2 ]
Sassy (+SpDef, -Spe)
0%
 0% [ 0 ]
Total Votes : 10
 

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bash678
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PostSubject: [Finished] Swablu   Tue Jan 06, 2015 5:28 pm

First topic message reminder :



I realised that since we're making this XY friendly, Altarianite (or any of the new mega stones) cannot be the held item.


Set 1 : Mega Special or Mixed
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Bold
Item: Altarianite Master Ball
IV spread: 31/31/31/31/31/31
Hidden Power: Not Relevant
Egg Moves:
- Hyper Voice
- Agility
- Power Swap
- Haze

Defensive mega that takes advantage of its bulk.

Set 2 : Mega Physical Offensive
Ability: Cloud Nine
Nature: Adamant
Item: Altarianite Master Ball
IV spread: 31/31/31/xx/31/31
Hidden Power: Not Relevant
Egg Moves:
- Dragon Rush
- Agility
- Feather Dance
- Haze

Offensive physical mega for Dragon Dance sets.

For special sets, since only the nature changes, I guess the rest can breed it for themselves unless there are enough votes to include one in the distribution.


Last edited by bash678 on Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:15 am; edited 12 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:13 pm

With cotton guard, I don't think feather dance needs to be on either,but it's fine on the first set. I do agree with agility over dragon rush on the second set.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:35 pm

I'm actually a bit confused on what everyone is saying about the egg moves. To recap:

Set 1: Mixed Defensive: Agility, Hyper Voice, Haze, Feather Dance
Set 2: Physical offensive: Agility, Power Swap, Haze, Dragon Rush (or should I change Dragon Rush for Feather Dance?)

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:42 pm

Mixed Defensive wants Power Swap more imo as its for gimmicks with Draco Meteor.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:44 pm

bash678 wrote:
I'm actually a bit confused on what everyone is saying about the egg moves. To recap:

Set 1: Mixed Defensive: Agility, Hyper Voice, Haze, Feather Dance
Set 2: Physical offensive: Agility, Power Swap, Haze, Dragon Rush (or should I change Dragon Rush for Feather Dance?)


So it's:

Set 1: Mixed Defensive: Agility, Hyper Voice, Haze, Power Swap
Set 2: Physical offensive: Agility, Feather Dance, Haze, Dragon Rush (or should I change Dragon Rush for Feather Dance?)
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:48 pm

bash678 wrote:
bash678 wrote:
I'm actually a bit confused on what everyone is saying about the egg moves. To recap:

Set 1: Mixed Defensive: Agility, Hyper Voice, Haze, Feather Dance
Set 2: Physical offensive: Agility, Power Swap, Haze, Dragon Rush (or should I change Dragon Rush for Feather Dance?)


So it's:

Set 1: Mixed Defensive: Agility, Hyper Voice, Haze, Power Swap
Set 2: Physical offensive: Agility, Feather Dance, Haze, Dragon Rush (or should I change Dragon Rush for Feather Dance?)

I think your fine with that. Dragon Rush>Feather Dance as your better off using Cotton Guard on that set along with DD as you plan on staying in more.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:49 pm

Yeah, what blue said.

Mixed defensive: hyper voice, haze, agility, power swap.

Physical offensive: agility, haze, dragon rush, feather dance.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:53 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
Yeah, what blue said.

Mixed defensive: hyper voice, haze, agility, power swap.

Physical offensive: agility, haze, dragon rush, feather dance.

Got it.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:02 pm

After looking at this for a while, I have a question on how in the world did we reach the idea of Relaxed? I understand the basis, to have a "mixed" defensive, but at the same time, most defensive Altaria either focus on their attack or their special attack, and never run a mixed set, so the idea of "mixed defensive" is basically flawed.

I agree that we should go with Adamant, think it is probably the best set we could go for, but I think we honestly could go Modest and have it as a complete set as well. It will have access to Hyper Voice, Fire Blast, Draco Meteor, among others, and though base 110 isn't "elite" its nothing to shake a stick at either.

I think that for the final set, we probably should go Impish (or Bold) to run the true defensive Altaria. Impish vs Bold just depends on what is more useful for a defensive set to run, (which I think is Impish).

So yes... I am saying we should make 3 sets. And also saying that we literally prepared for having more than 2 sets per pokemon when discussing Dragon/Flying, and then in some sort of "tradition" stubbornly locked into the 2 set per pokemon rule despite its near irrelevancy at this point. (please don't kill me)

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:16 pm

It's not for dragon dance. It's for the defensive heal bell set. Blue mentioned the impish dragon dance but the original impish wasn't meant to have that.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:19 pm

I can see the point for breeding 3 sets for altaria, like what we did for lucario. There are plenty of viable sets, and it's a pretty popular pokemon based on the replies on this thread.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:19 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
It's not for dragon dance. It's for the defensive heal bell set. Blue mentioned the impish dragon dance but the original impish wasn't meant to have that.

Re-editted my post, as I posted prematurely lol

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:28 pm

The point of relaxed is that fairy ground is really great coverage. Better than fairy fire. I don't get what you mean by "focus on either attack". There is no investment in either. Hyper voice is better on that set because if you run into a substitute and you can't break it, you have an option. And by not hindering its attack you have the option to run the much superior earthquake. You're not investing in speed anyway so I don't see the point in keeping it neutral just to have a traditional set when you have dual 110 attacking stats.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Wed Jan 07, 2015 11:47 pm

I can't find a single place suggesting to ever go Relaxed on Mega Altaria. Everything I see is either Impish, Bold, Modest, or Adamant.

You are really putting it in a bad situation with that speed. 144 (based on rough count) more pokemon are now faster than you, with 0 investment in speed themselves due to the Relaxed nature, some of which are going to hit hard.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 1:06 am

I think Bold is better than Relaxed but after what Bunsel said earlier I thought people wanted Relaxed.

So basically we can just use Bold instead of Relaxed and the result is the same: we have 2 sets that give us every possibility.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 8:12 am

I don't think the mixed defensive set is a terrible idea, I like Bunsel's reasoning (and it does show in last month's usage stats on The Site That Must Not Be Named. Albeit with a sassy nature, but that's basically the same thing). However I agree it's probably more niche than Modest or Bold, and this project is supposed to be about making the most common sets. And then there's the fact that Impish seems to have won a poll for a 'mixed defensive' set... wut?

Honestly I'm confused as to what is going on here. Personally I would be happy with just Adamant and Modest/Bold, or just expanding to include more sets.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 9:01 am

My big thing was coverage. It's a defensive Pokemon with no investment but decent natural power. I figured the ability to hit more stuff would be good given the lack of investment. But whatever, if people want bold then that's fine. We maybe should poll bold vs calm, as I can see specially defensive working really well with that slough of resistances. But maybe we should take the bold and run.

And everyone is confusing blue's impish with the original impish. The original was supposed to be a defensive set with return and earthquake for moves, then blue suggested his impish set which is entirely different, a bulky dragon dance set.

Also, I'm pretty stoked with my reasoning for relaxed, and doubly glad it does not show up on smogon. Suck it.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:00 am

Looks like a lot of people are really invested in this Pokémon. Based from these replies, the second set seems good to go. It will be pure physical. The discussion really lies on the Defensive set and one can really make a handful of sets for this. And in theory, regardless of nature of egg moves, you can easily use these distributed Pokémon as breeding parents of your own.

I put up a poll for Impish vs. Relaxed. Personally, I really like Bunsel's Relaxed idea. Yes, it has a speed lowering nature, but it has been argued that for a mixed M-Altaria in particular, lowering both defenses will be not ideal. So Relaxed, Sassy would be the only reasonable options.

But I agree with Karp in saying that, based on votes, it apparently only seems to be a niche and not very common. (I had thought more people would like it).

So for those who voted for Impish, would you be amenable to Bold instead since Impish/Adamant sets are essentially similar - they're both physical.

At least, if not mixed, we can have one that's special for variety. And for the defensive set (even if it's Bold), I'll really try to breed for flawless 6IV - this way, we can use it easily as a parent if we want to re-breed.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:26 am

The reason I suggested going 3 sets was to get the physical and the special, and maintain a good defensive set. I think the defensive set should likely focus more on physical attacks, since it has a more robust movepool. With relaxed, I'm hesitant because of how slow you are making it. I know its defensive, but there are a lot of powerful things out there, and if its slow enough, it can be KOed before doing anything. If you are caught in a switch and it takes damage, it very well may never get a chance to do anything due to the speed, which would become the equivalent of base 70, with the potential for even lower ones to outspeed it if they have any EV investment at all.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:30 am

3 sets and those who oppose a third don't get it Very Happy




gut idea frum mi Smile




for the lulz

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:49 am

zoid, defensive set is actually better special imo because you can use Hyper Voice to stop those who would try to hide behind a sub to set up on you. And in any case, if we have one adamant and one bold, you can breed the impish one in one step by changing the nature so, for the LAST time: this does NOT justify a third set.

Bunsel, no one is mixing up anything, any impish set is exactly the same at level one, no one cares how it's being trained.

Anyway, the only question now should be relaxed vs bold.


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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 11:59 am

For those of you who wanted Impish PM me or see me in the chat if you want a copy when I breed one after Pidove before my next Poke. Saves you time off doing it yourself.

Noticed I'm not the only one who voted Impish so I think there may be some dissapointed that its not here as 4 other people wanted it apparently.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 12:14 pm

Bold

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:00 pm

Blue, I think relaxed is better, but it seems like everyone wants bold, and I'm not going to ignore the thread and breed stuff that I like and hand it out outside of the project. You're undercutting bash and the guild rules in a big way here. You're ignoring that he is the breeder and you're ignoring the fact that we've decided that it doesn't need 3 sets that much. Blatantly, I might add. Don't distribute that Swablu.

And with what zoid was saying, it does have better physical moves, but hyper voice is good to get by Subs. Hence the relaxed suggestion.

With 4 stats of about 110, it's very versatile, which is why we are having trouble settling (and why Altaria isn't going to succeed in OU). From what I've seen, we are looking at a special set because special Altaria is very viable as well. We also don't have a defensive set, and with heal bell, we need one. Bold and calm fulfill this the best. So do we just poll bold vs calm?

The following natures are in some way viable: adamant, impish, careful, jolly, modest, bold, calm, relaxed, sassy. No wonder we can't decide.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:12 pm

don't take anything i say into account, i just hate speed lowering natures in general so i don't actually know what's best lol.




*floats off*

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:17 pm

No, you're perfectly justified dragon, speed lowering natures generally aren't good. I just tried to use Altaria's unique stats to get the utility of hyper voice and the coverage of earthquake. But being opposed is a very good position too. Conflict is the fuel that feeds democracy.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 2:41 pm

Yeah, the speed lowering nature is what I was trying to avoid. This thing is very versatile though. Glad Gamefreak did Altaria good with its mega. It went from a very meh pokemon to a super versatile one.

And Blue, that is sort of undermining the entire process. Even if you are doing it, you probably shouldn't post in the actual thread lol

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:08 pm

Well sorry, I just assumed there were some who actually did want the nature we werent getting based on poll results Razz

Its not like it makes Bash's Swablu any less than useful. As Bunsel said this thing can have so many viable sets and natures I feel just limiting it to only 2 sets just isnt gonna satisfy everyone. If you want to limit the Pokemon going to distribution fine but I want to make that set at least be available to the people who possibly wanted it.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:29 pm

I realize your intentions are good, I appreciate the help, but this is undercutting, plain and simple. You just don't do it. By distributing this, you pretty much say, "you guys didn't do it right, I'm going to fix it." it's bad form. Improving others people's hard work without being asked is a quick way to make yourself a lot of enemies.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:32 pm

We should probably redo the poll, or at least make people able to cancel their vote. In fairness to Blue, Impish did win and yet we still aren't breeding it, so we are also sort of saying democracy played its course... but we don't like the results so lets do this instead.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:36 pm

The equation changed though. The poll should have been taken down when it became apparent that we were leaning toward a special set instead. Plus, that poll was for relaxed vs impish, not bold vs impish. I suspect a lot of the impish votes were from people like you and dragon that just didn't want relaxed more than you wanted impish.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:46 pm

imo altaria is gonna be slightly annoying for online play


banned to ubers Smile

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:48 pm

I wish we had a mega Altaria so it's hair could soften this train wreck of a topic.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:08 pm

Like Bunsel said, the poll should have been deleted when we realized it wasn't adressing the right issue. Instead of voting for a nature for a defensive set, we should have been voting for a nature for a Hyper Voice set because the point of having 2 sets here is to have one physical with Dragon Rush and one either special or mixed with Hyper Voice.

According to the comments, Adamant seems to be the most popular nature for the physical set so we can rule out every other physical nature because the physical spot is taken by Adamant and anyone can breed an Impish or Careful or Jolly set using the Adamant set.

I'm putting up a vote for the nature of the second set with every possible nature for a special or mixed set with Hyper Voice. The vote ends tomorrow and that's it, train wreck over.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:11 pm

You can't just declare the train wreck over. The train wreck obeys no man. The rain wreck's only master is destruction.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:19 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
The rain wreck's

Credibility lost.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:20 pm

You literally just came into the chat and spelt it "traink wreck" Razz

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:21 pm

No, don't you see? That's the train wreck!

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:20 pm

Hmm... where do I start? Let me see what people are saying.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:22 pm

cmzoid wrote:
I can't find a single place suggesting to ever go Relaxed on Mega Altaria. Everything I see is either Impish, Bold, Modest, or Adamant.

I see that as merit though, since it's not very cookie-cutter but still viable but not too gimmicky.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 6:25 pm

Finally, bash is back to sing the praises of relaxed!

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:28 pm

Not everyone is really going to be happy with any nature for the defensive set.

If it's Bold/ Calm, one will argue that we need a defensive set running Earthquake and Dragon Dance.
If it's Impish/Careful, one will argue that we need a set with Hyper Voice to pass through subs.

The compromise was a mixed 6IV Pokemon and a speed reducing nature. There was an initial poll and Impish won but the discussion shifted about it essentially having Hyper Voice since no set has this (both are physical-based). I forgot to change it when I posted my response 7-8 hours ago. If that poll hasn't been posted, I would have done it after reading through the litany of replies. But anyway, thanks for amending that poll.

I suggest that if anyone wants to sub-distribute a Pokemon that someone else is breeding, do it privately.







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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Mon Jan 12, 2015 4:33 am

Modest and Bold are tied for Hyper Voice set. Since this is limited to two sets and the other set is offensive, I'll make a decision for the first set to be Bold.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Mon Jan 12, 2015 7:24 am

Yeah, I agree, I think a defensive set is necessary for mega Altaria

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Mon Jan 12, 2015 9:19 am

Good decision bash, I think you're clear to go whenever you get a chance.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Swablu   Sat Jan 17, 2015 8:14 am

This is done, both Bold and Adamant.
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» Rosalie Malfoy ( FINISHED!!)
» A small heard well actaly a band of arabian mares with faols(finished and NOT a pick n play)
» Scarlett King (Finished)
» Rose Weasley FINISHED

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Breeding Squad :: Breeding Project :: Pokémon :: Completed Types :: Dragon & Flying-
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