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 N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1

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Bunselpower
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PostSubject: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:53 pm

Alright, we're starting off the proceedings with a request, Mega Gardevoir.  The standard is timid offensive, if anyone sees any reason to run something else, now's your time to speak up!

I like offensive with either Taunt or Will-O-Wisp. Taunt breaks walls and Will-O-Wisp catches offensive stuff switching in.  I prefer Taunt, but let's open the discussion up.  

Team Members (Always room for suggestions)

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- HP Ground
- Will-O-Wisp

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head/Low Kick/Thunder Wave
- Stealth Rock

Discussion Stages:

Dragon type
Bisharp with Assault Vest


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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:05 pm

I personally had some success w/ Will-O-Wisp Timid Garde so I'd lean more on that.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:26 pm

Very Happy Yay! Thank you guys!


Iv'e never used either of those moves on it so it'd be nice to see if either of those do work (Taunt would be awesome to deal with things like chansey/Blissey.....or at least get them to switch out lol).

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:49 pm

Oh dragon, we're nowhere near done. We're going to build a team around it. If you just want a set, make a request in the set section, but we're embarking on a journey to make all mega pokes a team.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:40 pm

NooOoOOoOoOoOoOoOoOo work!!!!!!!!!!


Anyway, a good team mate could be Garchomp. It could take a Bullet Punch for Gardevoir if it ever needs to be switched out. And could help deal with steels and poisons Very Happy

252+ Atk Technician Mega Scizor Bullet Punch vs. 4 HP / 0 Def Garchomp: 126-148 (35.1 - 41.3%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

Shows it'd survive a bullet punch from mega scizor(which i think is pretty powerful). But actually getting rid of the pokemon in question could be a problem.

252 Atk Garchomp Earthquake vs. 252 HP / 0 Def Mega Scizor: 123-145 (35.7 - 42.1%) -- guaranteed 3HKO

(This is considering that we're going jolly with a choice scarf). Any thoughts? I try to help but it usually comes out sounding like a bunch of inconsistent gibberish....lol

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 4:53 pm

Although I hate OU mons that are ... well ... overused... I think Bisharp would be a good partner. Maybe we can make one w/ SR so it can set up its own hazards just so its less cookie cutterish, something specific it can do for its team that is at least out of the norm.

Anyways Garde covers Bisharp's Fighting weakness and Bisharp covers Garde's Ghost, Steel, Poison weakness and can nail some of its counters or set up on them.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:03 pm

Yeah, Bisharp is too cool, and as far as overused stuff, Bisharp isn't too bad. I like stealth rock on it because it can't be defogged. And it's stout enough to take a bullet for gardevoir XD

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:08 pm

*furiously complains in my head because i was gonna suggest bisharp but then changed to garchomp*

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:13 pm

Lol. Garchomp was a great suggestion as well. Bisharp just has more utility insofar as support.

So, offensive gardevoir and offensive Bisharp with rocks? Do we want swords dance or sucker punch with knock off?

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:26 pm

BlueDryBones1 wrote:
so it can set up its own hazards just so its less cookie cutterish, something specific it can do for its team that is at least out of the norm.

cookie cutter again O.O
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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:27 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
Lol.  Garchomp was a great suggestion as well.  Bisharp just has more utility insofar as support.  

So, offensive gardevoir and offensive Bisharp with rocks? Do we want swords dance or sucker punch with knock off?
I really wanna see SR o.o maybe even Pursuit but probably wanna see the rest of the team first to see if it'll appreciate Pursuit enough.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:29 pm

rafa wrote:
BlueDryBones1 wrote:
so it can set up its own hazards just so its less cookie cutterish, something specific it can do for its team that is at least out of the norm.

cookie cutter again O.O
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Basically what I refer to the sets that you see everywhere that lacks originality b/c everyone uses it. I try to have a few things special on my team to avoid this as I dont want to be dictated by Smogon on what is "viable".

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:32 pm

The issue is that sucker punch and knock off can't really be on the same set as swords dance (with rocks), and certainly not on the same set as pursuit.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:38 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
The issue is that sucker punch and knock off can't really be on the same set as swords dance (with rocks), and certainly not on the same set as pursuit.  
Part of me now really wants to say Scarfsharp similar to why people run Scarfrachi and to ease prediction on Sucker Punch vs Knock Off and Defiant if switched at the right time could lead to a sweep if you outrun enough but its probably a bad idea.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:43 pm

With rocks, it's tough. And having defiant makes it a really good candidate for rocks.

Personally, with the utility role that it appears to be taking, I'm fine with three attacks and rocks, I think knock off will be the first attack we should use. We can look elsewhere for a setup sweeper.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:44 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
With rocks, it's tough.  And having defiant makes it a really good candidate for rocks.  

Personally, with the utility role that it appears to be taking, I'm fine with three attacks and rocks, I think knock off will be the first attack we should use.  We can look elsewhere for a setup sweeper.  
May or may not want it but with it taking a utility role possible consideration for T-Wave?

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:50 pm

A very good idea. Watch out for ground type switch ins, but yeah, that could help. We're going to run into 4MSS (that's 4 Move Slot Syndrome for those who don't know, it's when a pokemon has too many viable moves).

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 5:58 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
So, offensive gardevoir and offensive Bisharp with rocks? Do we want swords dance or sucker punch with knock off?

I'm thinking:

Gardevoir @ Gardevoirite
Ability: Trace
EVs: 4 Def / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
Timid Nature
- Hyper Voice
- Psyshock
- Hidden Power [Ground]
- Taunt / Will-O-Wisp

Bisharp @ Life Orb
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 32 HP / 252 Atk / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Knock Off
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head / Low Kick
- Stealth Rock


But we could also use another pokemon to set up Stealth Rock and then use Bisharp as a tanky trapper (for Latias and other Defog users, mostly):

Bisharp @ Assault Vest
Ability: Defiant
EVs: 64 HP / 252 Atk / 192 SpD
Adamant Nature
- Pursuit
- Sucker Punch
- Iron Head
- Knock Off / Low Kick


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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:01 pm

Assault vest. Now you're not playing fair.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:03 pm

I made a test team composed of Garde, Bisharp, Noivern, Rotom-H, Eviolite Tangela, and suprise physical SD Keldeo.

The set with Wisp most effective on Garde I'm finding to be: Timid 80 HP, 252 SpA, 176 Spe

Outspeeds neutral 105s as well as can outrun any Bisharp pre megaevolution. Did pretty good on its first match with Wisp, Psyshock, HV, and CM

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:11 pm

Mademoiselle, to that point, do we need to trap Latios? It doesn't beat gardevoir does it?

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:22 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
Mademoiselle, to that point, do we need to trap Latios? It doesn't beat gardevoir does it?
W/ a LO Latios can at best 3HKO it while Garde can easily 1 shot it with HV.

Also success of the team makes me want to use Tangela and Physical Keldeo elsewhere as they have been doing wonders o.o Tangela is pretty much impenetrable as a physical wall with the only thing I seen "outbulk" it is physically defensive Intimidate Scrafty. I dont expect them to make it on the list here tho sadly.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Tue Jul 29, 2014 6:23 pm

*go team...woo*

i left for like two minutes...time to catch up

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:59 am

Dragon, your sig is creepy.

And yeah, in OU I don't think Tangela is gonna cut it.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 9:44 am

Bunselpower wrote:
Dragon, your sig is creepy.

And yeah, in OU I don't think Tangela is gonna cut it.
Yeah, it was just in my attempt to add a FWG core.

Also doesnt make Tangela less impressive I think on the right team it'll do well in OU. Give Tangrowth Leftovers vs Eviolite Tangela and Tangela actually takes hits better than it making it a far better seeder due to its lower HP restoring a higher % as well as a slight increase in speed.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:11 am

I'm not against it if it fits, I just don't want to pick a pokemon like that that we would end up building the rest of the team around, but yeah, if it fits.

Alright, we need something that can take a ground move. Of course, a defensive grass type would be nice. I'm not opposed to Tangela, but first can we consider Trevenant or Gourgeist? I love that set called the B-Tree, and Gourgeist makes a great sub seeder with phantom force. It sets up a psychic dark ghost core which is always cool.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:15 am

Bunselpower wrote:
I'm not against it if it fits, I just don't want to pick a pokemon like that that we would end up building the rest of the team around, but yeah, if it fits.  

Alright, we need something that can take a ground move.  Of course, a defensive grass type would be nice.  I'm not opposed to Tangela, but first can we consider Trevenant or Gourgeist? I love that set  called the B-Tree, and Gourgeist makes a great sub seeder with phantom force.  It sets up a psychic dark ghost core which is always cool.  
Says ground type resistance
immediately shuts down tangela
such sad Sad

Anyway yeah Trev/Gour were gonna be my next suggestion as they further help Bisharp with its Fighting weakness by being immune to it. On the - side you have 2 Fire and 2 Ghost weaknesses so you'll be very Sub Chandelure weak and I've been seeing a slight rise of them in OU as apparently people finally see what I see in it to use it with Scarf/Specs and Substitute(which can beat Bisharp if predicted right)

Also Bunsel lemme know when you can help nickname my Roggenrolla/any other matching ball pokes you might've bred.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:34 am

Oh that's right, I forgot about fire, scratch that. I chose the ghosts over Tangela because of the fighting type immunity, but that doesn't seem relevant with the fire weakness.

Hmm, maybe something like sub Moltres or a dragon/flying type? Levitating dragons also fill that role. They still help Bisharp with his weaknesses and shouldn't expose us to any more big ones.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 10:51 am

Bunselpower wrote:
Oh that's right, I forgot about fire, scratch that.  I chose the ghosts over Tangela because of the fighting type immunity, but that doesn't seem relevant with the fire weakness.  

Hmm, maybe something like sub Moltres or a dragon/flying type? Levitating dragons also fill that role.  They still help Bisharp with his weaknesses and shouldn't expose us to any more big ones.  
*Tries to convince Bunsel to not choose Dragonite*

Really would like to see if Noivern could work o.o probably a bad idea though. Is Salamence still OU?

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:13 am

I do love dragonite... And a strong priority move would be great.

Noivern is good, but seemingly pretty low powered here. And yeah, Salamence works as well with dragon dance.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:19 am

Hey, it would be easier for people to participate to the conversation if what we have so far was written in the OP.

I kinda want to help but I don't have time to read every single post to know what's been decided. So even if it's not definitive, you could just write down the main ideas so that we can see what's going?

This thread is making me realize how hard it is to jump in on a conversation about a team if you don't have time to check the thread for new answers every hour (or even every day).

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:21 am

Yeah sorry, I had softball last night, so I didn't get to get to the computer. I'm going to get there tonight.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:40 am

Alright, found a way to bypass typing on the phone involving two email accounts and a clipboard. First post is updated based on the suggestions so far.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:43 am

Bunsel as it cant really compete with the other base 100s in my opinion consider 80 HP 176 Spe for Garde? Allows it to hit 308 Spe post mega and 264 Spe pre mega gives it extra bulk for when it uses WoW. HP Ground is nice but I think it lacks the power to hit Steel types hard enough to take them out before they cripple you with Status or hit you w/ a SE move.

I personally use CM over HP Ground as I got free setup alot of times so far but thats debatable. I find its better to just let something else take care of Steels.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:49 am

Dang, I always think it's a base 105,idk why. And hp ground is there for Heatran, we're going to need something that can take it on if we drop that.


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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:51 am

Bunselpower wrote:
Dang, I always think it's a base 105,idk why.  And hp ground is there for Heatran, we're going to need something that can take it on if we drop that.  


I feel like Focus Miss wouldn't really help lol

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 11:58 am

You're right dragon. I meant another pokemon, but yeah, good point. Pretty much, this next pokemon needs Earthquake.

How about Haxorus? It's got mold breaker to roll through Heatran Rotom cores, we could double dance or just dragon dance with poison jab to knock Togekiss down. Or we can scarf it.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:01 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
You're right dragon. I meant another pokemon, but yeah, good point.  Pretty much, this next pokemon needs Earthquake.  

How about Haxorus? It's got mold breaker to roll through Heatran Rotom cores, we could double dance or just dragon dance with poison jab to knock Togekiss down. Or we can scarf it.  
Yes pls. Would love to see a Haxorus on this team I'd like to see a banded or a Scarfed set but if the team needs a setup sweeper DD w/ Lum Berry and maybe Substitute would be good.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Jul 30, 2014 12:07 pm

I really like the double dancing set with Lum berry. The only things I can think of giving it trouble would be Skarmory (who's going to trouble you with or without poison jab) and Togekiss.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Aug 27, 2014 5:15 pm

Seeing as I do want this section to become something, i will continue this conversation. What about bulky Gyarados? It covers Bisharp's fighting, ground, and fire weaknesses very well, and can deal with stuff Haxorus may not be able to. Although then you run into Rotom-W as a problem. But maybe we can deal with that with a grass type in bones' fire/water/grass core.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Aug 27, 2014 7:39 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
Seeing as I do want this section to become something, i will continue this conversation. What about bulky Gyarados? It covers Bisharp's fighting, ground, and fire weaknesses very well, and can deal with stuff Haxorus may not be able to. Although then you run into Rotom-W as a problem. But maybe we can deal with that with a grass type in bones' fire/water/grass core.
Saw Gyarados become uninterested then saw Bulky and hope we get something interesting out of this.

Of course it cant be a Mega but seems interesting. Covers the Weaknesses for Bisharp you brung up however it lacks reliable recovery which was a problem with some of my Gyarados attempts whenever I tried to go defensive.

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PostSubject: Re: N.M.L.B. Gardevoir - Team 1   Wed Aug 27, 2014 9:03 pm

I really love the bulky set. It looks something like this:

Gyarados @ Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EVs: 88 HP / 192 Atk / 4 Def / 224 Spe
Adamant Nature
- Substitute
- Dragon Dance
- Waterfall
- Bounce

Lack of recovery with offensive Gyarados is mitigated by bounce, which gives you two turns of recovery while protecting your sub while in the air. Taunt is an option but I like sub better.

Plus, we can get the other members to carry some wish support.

_________________
"The Designated Hitter rule in baseball is like letting someone else take Wilt Chamberlain's free throws."
-Rick Wise


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