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rafa
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PostSubject: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sat May 31, 2014 11:56 pm


BELLSPROUT



http://www.serebii.net/pokedex-xy/069.shtml

Proposed Sets

Set 1: Special Sun Sweeper
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Modest
Item: Life Orb
IV spread: HP rock spread
Hidden Power: Rock
Egg Moves:
-Clear Smog
-Synthesis
-Giga Drain
-Weather Ball

Set 2: Mixed
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Naughty
Item: Life Orb
IV spread: 31/31/31/31/31/31
Hidden Power: not relevant
Egg Moves:
-Bullet Seed
-Power Whip
-Weather Ball
-Synthesis


Last edited by rafakp on Wed Jun 04, 2014 6:19 pm; edited 10 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:39 am

If it's in the sun, I feel HP Fire is the best way to go here. Look at a guide on how to do that, including getting a Ditto for it and everything. It can be ok, but it's a lot of RNG, RNG which is currently kicking my butt around.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:42 am

Since it learns weather ball as an egg move, HP fire wouldn't be THAT essential to have, but, yes, I'll take a look at a guide lol
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:44 am

I was just thinking for utility outside of sun. But yeah, forgot about that, it's better in the sun.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:06 am

Should we just combine the 2 sets to make one mixed sweeper? Egg moves could be weather ball, synthesis, power whip, ingrain/belch. I think victreebel has decent offensive stats to pull off a mixed set. It would also maximize the effect of growth under the sun.

Either way, I'm in favor of hp fire so it can still function outside the sun.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 9:26 am

I have a Friend Ball Bellsprout if you want to pass it on?

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:15 am

Ed, my man, I like the way you think. But instead of ingrain/belch, can we do giga drain instead? I just saw that it gets it and had decent special defense along with hp (i know, I'm addicted to assault vest). I think the best nature for a mixed set would be mild, but I do think a 6 IV (or close to it) spread would be best. I don't often ask for these, but I think with it being poison type and a good check to fighting, we need to keep its defense high, but doing mild will only lower it by 7, not that much.

I would actually not be heartbroken if we did two sets here, mixed and special attacking only, because this thing has am enormous move pool.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:31 am

Bunselpower wrote:
Ed, my man, I like the way you think. But instead of ingrain/belch, can we do giga drain instead? I just saw that it gets it and had decent special defense along with hp (i know, I'm addicted to assault vest). I think the best nature for a mixed set would be mild, but I do think a 6 IV (or close to it) spread would be best. I don't often ask for these, but I think with it being poison type and a good check to fighting, we need to keep its defense high, but doing mild will only lower it by 7, not that much.

I would actually not be heartbroken if we did two sets here, mixed and special attacking only, because this thing has am enormous move pool.

Flood the market with Bellsprouts! Bellsprouts for all!!! I do like going with HP fire as well, to attempt to make it viable outside the sun, but I think it is probably a bit much to ask a 6IV HP Fire, though would be cool to have one. Why do we save pokemon like this for the end? Super cool ideas with potential need for 6IV HP... and its 4th to last picked... lol

I also don't mind the assault vest this time (but have to agree, Bunsel is addicted lol), so I also second giga drain (maybe for the mixed one, not sure on both or not).
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:48 am

cmzoid wrote:
Bunselpower wrote:
Ed, my man, I like the way you think. But instead of ingrain/belch, can we do giga drain instead? I just saw that it gets it and had decent special defense along with hp (i know, I'm addicted to assault vest). I think the best nature for a mixed set would be mild, but I do think a 6 IV (or close to it) spread would be best. I don't often ask for these, but I think with it being poison type and a good check to fighting, we need to keep its defense high, but doing mild will only lower it by 7, not that much.

I would actually not be heartbroken if we did two sets here, mixed and special attacking only, because this thing has am enormous move pool.

Flood the market with Bellsprouts! Bellsprouts for all!!! I do like going with HP fire as well, to attempt to make it viable outside the sun, but I think it is probably a bit much to ask a 6IV HP Fire, though would be cool to have one. Why do we save pokemon like this for the end? Super cool ideas with potential need for 6IV HP... and its 4th to last picked... lol

I also don't mind the assault vest this time (but have to agree, Bunsel is addicted lol), so I also second giga drain (maybe for the mixed one, not sure on both or not).

I don't have a problem.

And i'd say it needs to be on the special attacking one if anything.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:33 am

Oh, I didn't see giga drain in the list of egg moves. But if it gets it, it should definitely be on the list of egg moves. I think I have a breeding reject of this with similar egg moves if you need one.

Also, hp fire is useful, but it might be too much to ask for a perfect hp fire spread. So it's up to the breeder if he wants to do it. I think I'm ok with it having imperfect defense or sp def depending on the nature.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:02 pm

Physical(Adamant): Power Whip, Encore, Synthesis, Natural Gift/Bullet Seed
Special(Modest): Encore, Giga Drain, Weather Ball, Synthesis/Acid Spray/Belch
Mixed(Rash/Naïve): Giga Drain, Weather Ball, Power Whip, Encore/Synthesis/Acid Spray/Belch

Special or mixed you should always have Weather Ball on it.

Also guys as it has Weather Ball why not change its Hidden Power to Rock so it can take on Flying and Fire types?

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 12:16 pm

BlueDryBones1 wrote:
Physical(Adamant): Power Whip, Encore, Synthesis, Natural Gift/Bullet Seed
Special(Modest): Encore, Giga Drain, Weather Ball, Synthesis/Acid Spray/Belch
Mixed(Rash/Naïve): Giga Drain, Weather Ball, Power Whip, Encore/Synthesis/Acid Spray/Belch

Special or mixed you should always have Weather Ball on it.

Also guys as it has Weather Ball why not change its Hidden Power to Rock so it can take on Flying and Fire types?

To be able to function outside of weather. I won't be using it on a sun team likely, i figured it was the best option for people that don't want to use it on a sun team. But it does suck outside of the sun. I like it because it has good mixed stats, Giga Drain, and Knock Off, perfect for an Assault Vest user. which is why I'm fine with Special and Mixed.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:30 pm

I think it'd be complicated to have a 6iv with hp fire lol

I do know that for a sun sweeper, to have both weather ball + a hp other than fire as a surprise would be really useful. But I would rather not breed it with HP... 6iv for sure.

It has a very interesting move pool... I'm up for breeding all three sets. Just gotta decide on the  egg moves. Polls?

I wouldn't choose Natural Gift for the Physical set, because I think Life Orb's boost would bring us more advantages.

Acid Spray would be incredibly useful in the special set, for it'd harshly lower the target's SD. But Belch and synthesis are also very interesting... The special set is hard to decide...

But I'm up for breeding three Bellsprouts... don't know if the group accepts that?


Last edited by rafakp on Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:36 pm

Three sets for Bellsprout is a tad too much. I think one set is enough.

That being said, I'm voting for a mixed set.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:37 pm

I think we should do a poll for the 3, because we normally never breed 3 sets per pokemon, unless you want to face the wrath of Ms. C... O.O

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:04 pm

Lol didn't know that... ok. So a poll to decide which one of the three I'll breed?
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:12 pm

or what two, whatever you want to do, or are forced to do out of peer pressure Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 6:35 pm

Yeah, not three ever, we don't want to open that can of worms.

I think if we're going to split it, special needs to be on there, just because of giga drain. I also think with the attacking stats, mixed is an option that should be definitely considered.

Sorry I asked for a 6 IV earlier, I was forced to do so under duress. A crazed person with a Montreal Canadiens jersey and a Sabrina mask held a gun to my head and told me to keep the number of sets to a minimum. Luckily, Jack Bauer burst in and took her down. Turns out she was part of a radical Canadian forum admin group called "les habitants" who physically enforce forum rules. She was part of radical cell "C" and her people called her "Mademoiselle". Weird.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:00 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
Sorry I asked for a 6 IV earlier, I was forced to do so under duress. A crazed person with a Montreal Canadiens jersey and a Sabrina mask held a gun to my head and told me to keep the number of sets to a minimum. Luckily, Jack Bauer burst in and took her down. Turns out she was part of a radical Canadian forum admin group called "les habitants" who physically enforce forum rules. She was part of radical cell "C" and her people called her "Mademoiselle". Weird.

Oh... my... god.... that was perfect... lol
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:45 pm

Bunsel, it was nice knowin' ya.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:32 pm

Wow... it seems to be a tiresome, sad and lonely journey to breed a close-to-flawless pkmn with HP :'(
May I skip the HP part? Lol

Someone said something about getting a ditto for the HP... does anyone happen to have one that would help breeding a Rock or Fire HP? That is another thing to think about. If you really need to have a HP, wouldn't it be more interesting to have a Rock one? Someone also commented that and it seems better to me. (Not that I changed my mind about not looking forward to breeding with HP in the plans lol)
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:45 pm

Like I said, I only like fire because it allows me to use a fire attack outside of Sun. But rock does make sense.

Put in a request on the board below this one for an hp ditto.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 10:58 pm

HP rock makes sense since I'm planning to use victreebel under the sun anyway.

Also, the project calls for hidden power breeding if it's an ideal move for a pokemon's competitive set. Most grass/poison types require hidden power breeding for additional coverage (which is why I avoided breeding bellsprout haha).

You can create a thread requesting for HP dittos in the breeding materials thread. If you don't feel like breeding for hidden power, maybe someone else can take over? I can do it once I finish breeding Igglybuff.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:07 pm

Already requested HP dittos. Just don't know how much it'll help. Because without them it seems to be extremely exhausting. Never really focused on breeding with a certain HP, so I might be just exaggerating... really don't know. I'll try at least.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:12 pm

Oh, I agree that breeding without HP dittos would be extremely difficult. I don't know if I'll even have the patience to do it haha.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:17 pm

Well, I've been really busy, but I'm doing Oddish with hp fire. I don't have a dedicated hp type of ditto, just a 6 IV with all 30 IV's. I bred 5 last go round, and Oddish is still the first one I've gotten to.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:20 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
Well, I've been really busy, but I'm doing Oddish with hp fire. I don't have a dedicated hp type of ditto, just a 6 IV with all 30 IV's. I bred 5 last go round, and Oddish is still the first one I've gotten to.  

Yeah, HP breeding without an HP ditto is just horrible. Since I might be lending
rafakp the HP Rock one, I have 2 HP Fire ones, and I could lend you one if you want. If he ends up needing the HP Fire though, I can only help one person, as I need one for breeding Foongus.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:24 pm

I can lend you my hp fire ditto bunsel

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:25 pm

ed819 wrote:
I can lend you my hp fire ditto bunsel

Get out of here, I offered first!!! (Though it is probably for the best in case its determined Bellsprout wants HP fire too...)
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:28 pm

Would you rather have the HP as fire or rock in the bellsprout? Since it is not that great if not under the sun, I think it'd be better to breed it with HP Rock to give us more options when it's sunny and MAN a ditto with all ivs as 30 sure helps with this quest. Where did u get that? Lol
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:30 pm

I vote hp rock.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:35 pm

Either is fine with me

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:38 pm

It makes sense to me, because Victreebel would not usually make to ur team if it isn't a sun one. Then, with Rock HP, we'd have two cards hidden up our sleeve Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:55 pm

Now... the sets and the moves... Should I do both the mixed and special sets? When that's set we can decide on the moves.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Sun Jun 01, 2014 11:58 pm

Unless someone really absolutely wants a special set, I think you can make only the mixed one and make it with a +sp.atk nature.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:03 am

I agree with MC. Maybe rash nature? Or mild? Also, the 4th egg move for the mixed set should be synthesis imo. You'll be using it on a sun team so synthesis will heal more hp. It might be more useful than belch or encore.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:04 am

And for the last move I would go with either clear smog or bullet seed

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:06 am

Also, just to give a little bit of advice when HP breeding, as it can be horrible if you don't approach it right. This is a method I've used and it works well for me.

First, you get the egg moves, nature, and ability if you are going for a HA. Then you start breeding with the HP ditto, and hatch the eggs. I start doing a kind of mass sorting.

I first take the newborn pokemon to the HP Judge in Anistar, if the HP is the right type (rock in this case), I keep it. Otherwise, the pokemon is immediately released. After that, I take the remaining pokemon to the IV Judge in Kiloude. If the Ivs which are suppose to be 31 match (in Rock's case, HP, Atk, and Sp. Atk), I store these pokemon in a PC box to check their remaining IVs later. I then release the rest.

After you accumulate enough pokemon that have passed the first two tests, I take them to the battle institute and check their stats. I use this calculator to determine the stats: http://www.serebii.net/games/iv-calcdp.shtml

Sadly, that only works for Gens 1-5, but it will work for Bellsprout. The process can be overwhelming if you approach it incorrectly, but this is a more organized method (at least how I do it).

This size of this post might also be overwhelming... sorry for the wall of text, but I wanted to help if I could lol

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:07 am

ed819 wrote:
I agree with MC. Maybe rash nature? Or mild? Also, the 4th egg move for the mixed set should be synthesis imo. You'll be using it on a sun team so synthesis will heal more hp. It might be more useful than belch or encore.

I agree for synthesis as well, given that it will likely be on a sun team.
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:10 am

Actually the more I think about it, the more I think you should make 2 sets just because there are too many good egg moves.

One special set with giga drain, weather ball, clear smog, synthesis and hp rock, and one mixed with power whip, bullet seed, weather ball and synthesis (and hp not necessary).

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:14 am

And if you make both like I just said, then I'd use a physical nature on the mixed set.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:16 am

Yep!!! O.o too many good egg moves! Lol
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:17 am

Thanks cmzoid for the wall of text, the idea is great Wink
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:18 am

On my guide, I forgot to mention. This only works if you have "decent" parents, and early on you check all potential pokemon, as you want as good parents as possible. Once you get 4 of the correct IVs, the method I said is good, and replacing when you get a 5 (if you are going for 6) is needed. Forgot to mention that... or wasn't going to until ed told me to... that might have been it too...

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:27 am

Awesome post Zoid, that is exactly what I'm doing right now. I could take the ditto, but I've worked it down to hp flying and fire for parents I believe. I've gotten what I suspect to be 5 hp fire Oddish already, each one bed with a mother with run away, and none of them have run away. I would like to meet the people that say there's a 60 percent chance, I bet 60 percent of a fist still hurts pretty bad.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:30 am

Lol
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:31 am

Bunselpower wrote:
Awesome post Zoid, that is exactly what I'm doing right now. I could take the ditto, but I've worked it down to hp flying and fire for parents I believe. I've gotten what I suspect to be 5 hp fire Oddish already, each one bed with a mother with run away, and none of them have run away. I would like to meet the people that say there's a 60 percent chance, I bet 60 percent of a fist still hurts pretty bad.

I know, that can be a huge middle finger. I have 3 6IV Sand Veil Cacnea because of that. I'm pretty sure its around 50/50, so 60% is probably right... but GF is in the business of trolling, and its only 60% if the pokemon are rejects, and 10% if they actually are good...

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:49 am

Okay... I'll do both sets. Maybe naughty for the mixed set fits good... Victreebel's SD is a little bit higher than its Defense, and I'd rather leave its speed untouched. So... for the mixed, we'd have: Power Whip, Weather Ball, Bullet Seed and Synthesis, like Ms. C said while the Special set would have Giga Drain, Weather Ball, Synthesis and one last move. I'm torn between Acid Spray and Clear Smog. Although Clear Smog could be salvation sometimes, I think that Acid Spray would make of Victreebel an even more dangerous opponent to battle against, because it'd lower exactly the target's SD. What do you think?
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 1:03 am

Lowering opponent's stats with a move, at least in my experience, is never worth it. You are going to get much more utility out of Clear Smog stopping Setup Sweepers. It isn't blocked by Taunt, I believe it hits through sub, and it just a better move.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Bellsprout   Mon Jun 02, 2014 10:04 am

I'd argue Speed or Special Attack Boosting nature would be more beneficial for Mixed. I feel Victreebell would be using those moves more and the Physical move would be Power Whip maybe Knock Off while the special moves would be your Poison move, Weather Ball, and your Hidden Power(only if your doing it for Mixed).

Also I would argue Encore over Bullet Seed for the mixed set. A fast Encore is always good as if you trap your opponent in the right move you can get all the Growth Boosts you want.

Also let me know if you want me to send you the Friend Ball Bellsprout I have so you can have it in a nice ball.

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[Finished] Bellsprout
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