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 [Finished] Budew & Roselia

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BlueDryBones1
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PostSubject: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Tue May 27, 2014 5:24 pm


Proposed Sets

Set 1 : Spikes (Roselia)
Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Timid
Item: Shiny Stone
IV spread: 31/6/31/31/31/31
Hidden Power: None
Egg Moves:
-Spikes
-Sleep Powder
-Leaf Storm
-Giga Drain

Set 2 : Offensive (Budew)
Ability: Leaf Guard
Nature: Timid
Item: Shiny Stone
IV spread: 31/0/31/30/31/30
Hidden Power: Fire
Egg Moves:
-Sleep Powder
-Leaf Storm
-Giga Drain
-Extrasensory

Non-HA will be in Friend Ball, HA will be in Dusk Ball.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Tue May 27, 2014 5:41 pm

I like the second one more than the first, because I'm meh on using Roserade for spikes setup, and I think there is natural setup for the 2nd set if you do have sleep powder... other than Steel pokemon, but thats what the rest of your team is for Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Tue May 27, 2014 6:03 pm

Why put that 125 Base Special Attack to waste though (as Roserad of course). It seems like the reason it works at all. Also why not consider a HP Fire Set? It looks like it could use the coverage. (That is literally all i have to say, if someone counters it, i have nothing left to say. Thank you all).

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Tue May 27, 2014 6:06 pm

Dragon-Flower wrote:
Why put that 125 Base Special Attack to waste though (as Roserad of course). It seems like the reason it works at all. Also why not consider a HP Fire Set? It looks like it could use the coverage. (That is literally all i have to say, if someone counters it, i have nothing left to say. Thank you all).

Mentioned fire in the first or am willing to breed another with it.  I just don't like the idea of HP Fire Technician. From experience I feel Natural Cure is really important on it. The first set I'm willing to take other suggestions or split the set in to 2 for different roles.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Tue May 27, 2014 7:14 pm

I think hp fire on the first set is essential so it won't be walled by steel types.

I'm not sure on the 2nd set. Roserade's attack stat is not that high so I don't think it can pull off a physical attacking set. I also haven't tried using roserade with technician so I can't say if it's good or not.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Tue May 27, 2014 8:26 pm

Roserade is a fantastic spikes setter. Personally, I run the Spikes set defensively, Calm, with a little Defense investment. But I've heard it both ways. And Natural Cure is absolutely necessary on this one to absorb status, so HP Fire, to be honest, isn't needed, it's too weak. It's played defensively, so bring something for steel types.

I feel like the second one should be Timid HP Fire Technician. Bug/Grass is awful coverage, and boosting up to use an attack that may be a 75 power attack coming from a base 70 Attack doesn't seem like a good idea. Plus Natural Gift is a one time use only attack, so that also doesn't seem like a good idea. Having a Base 90 Fire move to use alongside whatever other Attacking moves you have is excellent coverage.

I'm wondering about the merits of a Technician Modest Assault Vest set. It gets Giga Drain. It's not the best candidate, but hey, it would laugh off those Special Attacks.

And it now occurs to me that this thing can't be poisoned, and it can't be hit by spore moves, so Natural Cure isn't as big a deal as it used to be.

Why would you make Extrasensory incompatible with Roselia Gamefreak? Why do you hate us so? That would give this thing so much more use. Damn you.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Tue May 27, 2014 8:46 pm

BUDEW!!! but I like the sets there.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Tue May 27, 2014 9:09 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
Roserade is a fantastic spikes setter. Personally, I run the Spikes set defensively, Calm, with a little Defense investment. But I've heard it both ways. And Natural Cure is absolutely necessary on this one to absorb status, so HP Fire, to be honest, isn't needed, it's too weak. It's played defensively, so bring something for steel types.

I feel like the second one should be Timid HP Fire Technician. Bug/Grass is awful coverage, and boosting up to use an attack that may be a 75 power attack coming from a base 70 Attack doesn't seem like a good idea. Plus Natural Gift is a one time use only attack, so that also doesn't seem like a good idea. Having a Base 90 Fire move to use alongside whatever other Attacking moves you have is excellent coverage.

I'm wondering about the merits of a Technician Modest Assault Vest set. It gets Giga Drain. It's not the best candidate, but hey, it would laugh off those Special Attacks.

And it now occurs to me that this thing can't be poisoned, and it can't be hit by spore moves, so Natural Cure isn't as big a deal as it used to be.

Why would you make Extrasensory incompatible with Roselia Gamefreak? Why do you hate us so? That would give this thing so much more use. Damn you.

For the physical set these are just EMs not just final moves. Just thought those would be the best on physical Roserade. I only find myself using Sleep Powder/Bullet Seed off of them.

Natural Cure is still useful to me imo being able to switch into Burns/Paralysis for someone else and not even care is pretty good. Also free Rests.

This may be the last thing I breed for this type, so I'm willing to breed many sets. Might consider Nest Ball for one of them if we do 3 though for some nice variety. Maybe even a Love Ball one as well if we do 4 and so on.

I feel like there should be both a Natural Cure and Technician set for the special variants. Updated the first post willing to take more suggestions to see whats better. I'm breeding physical whether you guys like it or not(though you don't have to take it I want one) and I feel an Eviolite Roselia set should be made as well for the lower tiers.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Tue May 27, 2014 10:13 pm

3 sets for one pokemon is a bit too much I think. I like roserade, but I really think we should limit it to 2 sets per pokemon.

That being said, I'm still voting for the first set. I see natural cure as a generally more useful ability than technician. I like running roserade as an offensive spiker, so I vote timid, natural cure, with hp fire for the set.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Tue May 27, 2014 10:53 pm

ed819 wrote:
3 sets for one pokemon is a bit too much I think. I like roserade, but I really think we should limit it to 2 sets per pokemon.

That being said, I'm still voting for the first set. I see natural cure as a generally more useful ability than technician. I like running roserade as an offensive spiker, so I vote timid, natural cure, with hp fire for the set.

Unless its a problem for cloners I can breed 3 sets no problem. I gererally breed things rather quickly once I get all my resources ready.

I actually want to make several sets with different balls each. I feel Roserade actually has a lot of options.

Although against it first I actually now think Technician HP Fire might not be a bad idea but I feel NC shouldn't be using a HP at all especially as a Spiker as it may not use it and it lowers its speed though really not much in its speed tier to worry about as long as it outspaces Excadrill.

HP Fire may not be the easiest for me as I've always had trouble getting it in the Grass Egg group unless I'm forgetting a recent trade that got me one the only HP Fire I got in the grass egg group is a 31/x/31/30/31/0 Sunkern and that 0 Spe will hinder me from making any progress.

Also I would like to hear ball preferences for each. Assuming we are only doing 1 Natural Cure one it should be in a Friend Ball and if 2 are done w/ HA 1 should be in Dusk and 1 in Nest to have a bit of variety. Its female or bust for all of these the way I'm breeding them and I'm willing to do Budew if people want Extrasensory over Spikes if we aren't picky in Modest vs Timid otherwise I would have a 1% chance tto get it if looking for a specific nature/gender/hidden power and that's w/o counting the ability.

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Mademoiselle C
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Tue May 27, 2014 11:49 pm

Only 2 sets, not 3, especially not for something with as little use as Roselia. Imo even 1 would be enough: timid, natural cure, spikes/giga drain/leaf storm/sleep powder.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Tue May 27, 2014 11:59 pm

If you can get Extrasensory on there with HP Fire and don't mind the ridiculousness of it, that's awesome. But that's too much to ask, and is only something you should do of your own volition.

Most will likely never use the SD one, (although I do love odd sets, thanks for posting it, I'm probably going to try it now XD) and we're going for the best two sets here, so if it were up to me I'd go for one Defensive and one Offensive. And yeah, one set does need to be NC, and the other Technician. I vote for a Timid/Bold Spikes set (No HP Fire) with NC and an offensive Timid Technician HP Fire set (whether or not Extrasensory gets on there).

Again, we are limiting it to two sets, plenty of pokemon (Larvitar, for one) get three or more viable sets, but that is opening a giant can of worms. We are trying to make the two most universally used and useful sets.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 12:09 am

If you're going to make 2 I'd say make both timid (because Roserade needs all the speed it can get even as a spiker), one with natural cure and no hp, one with technician and hp fire. And I really don't care about Extrasensory, I'm pretty sure no one is going to use it. So, basically, what Bunsel said, but both timid.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 12:10 am

Mademoiselle C wrote:
If you're going to make 2 I'd say make both timid (because Roserade needs all the speed it can get even as a spiker), one with natural cure and no hp, one with technician and hp fire. And I really don't care about Extrasensory, I'm pretty sure no one is going to use it. So, basically, what Bunsel said, but both timid.

If we got an HP Fire Extrasensory Roserade, I'd use it. The one thing the set can't cover is Poison Types. Psychic covers those really well. But yeah, it's almost impossible to get, so I'll just teach it Dazzling Gleam and move on.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 12:16 am

I agree with MC's suggestion, 2 timid sets, one with HA, one without.

I don't think breeding a budew is necessary. Breeding for hidden power is hard enough as it is, you don't need to add to the frustration by breeding for a baby pokemon.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 12:18 am

Yeah, like I said. That is an insanely low chance. I'll carry something to hit the Poison types.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 12:22 am

With an offensive set I would just use sleep powder, giga drain, sludge bomb and HP fire. You put poison types to sleep and slowly kill them with HP fire hoping they don't wake up too quickly XD

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 12:25 am

Mademoiselle C wrote:
With an offensive set I would just use sleep powder, giga drain, sludge bomb and HP fire. You put poison types to sleep and slowly kill them with HP fire hoping they don't wake up too quickly XD

Yeah, it is super situational. I'm thinking about that fourth moveslot, wondering what I should run there. I guess Sleep Powder may be best.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 10:01 am

Alright so I guess I'll do both Timid 1 NC 1 Technician HP Fire but I'll give Budew a try for a while and if I don't get one give up and get it Spikes instead.

Though I will be breeding the Jolly one for myself(you guys should seriously try it). If anyone wants one aside from these 2 let me know so I can breed extras.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 10:58 am

3/5(60% of passing HA)/2(gender)/2(attack IV being Even)/6(attack IV being the random one)/25(Timid Nature)=1/1000 .001%

Those are the odds of getting a Female HA HP Fire -Att Timid Budew ._.

Also the time of evolving it for new parents. I'll try for a short while but sadly after looking at this match it might be safe to say I will most likely not succeed. Darn that Rose incense. The Everstone+Destiny Knot Combo does in fact make a huge difference as shown by this. Imagine if we didn't get one or the other D:

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 11:01 am

No it's all good man. Like I said, this is a ridiculous combo to get. You are already hp breeding, so don't waste too much of your time.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 11:15 am

Bunselpower wrote:
No it's all good man. Like I said, this is a ridiculous combo to get. You are already hp breeding, so don't waste too much of your time.

HP Breeding is easy imo. Especially when you do it as much as I do and have most HPs covered for most egg groups. I've done Hidden Powers on 12.5% females so I really want to give this a try even though the odds are against me. If unsuccessful I'll breed for Roselia but you got to admit it'll be cool if I can get that 1 Budew for all of us.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 11:17 am

That would be nuts man.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 11:50 am

Bunselpower wrote:
That would be nuts man.
Well breeding Magikarps and SR on every Timid egg to swap out parents seems like the best way to go. Allows me to hatch a lot in a short amount of time. Will get a egg on every Modest/Calm/Timid one I see.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 12:13 pm

Just had a thought. With extrasensory, you're going to lose Leaf Storm, sleep powder, and giga drain, right? I'm not sure this is a good thing or not. I'm probably going to run giga drain (level up for roselia) or magical leaf anyway, but still, something to think about.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 12:15 pm

Bunselpower wrote:
Just had a thought. With extrasensory, you're going to lose Leaf Storm, sleep powder, and giga drain, right? I'm not sure this is a good thing or not. I'm probably going to run giga drain (level up for roselia) or magical leaf anyway, but still, something to think about.

I will lose Spikes. I feel NC goes well with it so Spikes will stay on the first set only. The only EM Roselia gets over Budew is Bullet Seed. The only EM Budew gets that Roselia doesn't is Extrasensory.

It learns Giga Drain by Lv up? For the Technician set I feel it might want it so you can swap it out but for the Spikes set. Then again I use Leaf Storm a lot so I feel it can stay since Roserade cant relearn it.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 12:22 pm

Oh ok, as long as spikes is the only thing lost. If giga and storm can stay, I'd prefer it, just for relearning moves after evolution. Because I feel like both will get use in different situations.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Wed May 28, 2014 4:14 pm

Working on Budew. Best one I got so far was 31/0/31/30/31/30 Calm Male. Still looking for Timid or at least Modest.

I feel this next set deserves a mention:

Ability: Natural Cure
Nature: Calm
Item: Eviolite
IV spread: 31/x/31/31/31/31
Hidden Power: None
Egg Moves:
-Spikes
-Sleep Powder
-Synthesis
-Leaf Storm(Leaf Storm b/c its filler as you should never be forgetting Giga Drain anyways.)

For Eviolite Roselia or Specially Defensive Roserade.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Thu May 29, 2014 10:01 am

Was so close yesterday. Got a Timid HA Female 31/0/31/31/31/30 Budew. The 31 in SpA was random. Why wasn't it 1 point less Sad

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Thu May 29, 2014 10:04 am

Dang, timid too. That smarts.

Don't try to much more man, I think for an offensive one timid is the nature we need anyway.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Thu May 29, 2014 10:23 am

Bunselpower wrote:
Dang, timid too. That smarts.

Don't try to much more man, I think for an offensive one timid is the nature we need anyway.

No, not giving up. Also finally found it Very Happy

Its male though do you guys still want it?

Male Sad
31/0/31/30/31/30 HP Fire
Timid
Leaf Guard
Dusk Ball
EMs: EXTRASENSORY, Giga Drain, Leaf Storm, Sleep Powder

Its male sadly but its a 6IV Budew w/ the exact nature we are looking for. ._.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Thu May 29, 2014 10:31 am

Dear Lord, are you kidding me?! That is clutch performance right there, wow. Yes, I could care less if it's male, I want that Budew!

I feel like I'm shaming myself and my family because I still can't get the RNG to roll me an hp fire Oddish. I got flying, but lost the ball along the way, so now I have to go at this a different way.

In other news, listen to Tears for Fears, they

Nonetheless, congrats man!

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Thu May 29, 2014 10:46 am

Timid Leaf Guard Budew (M) 31/0/31/30/31/30 (+Extrasensory, Giga Drain, Leaf Storm, Sleep Powder) Hidden Power Fire

To put it in perspective on the odds:

1/32(6IV spread)/25(Timid Nature)*3/5(Chances of passing HA) = 3 / 4000 = 0.00075%

Bordering MM Shiny levels. May be a bit worse. This is w/o factoring genders. If I got a female the unlikeliness would've doubled.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Thu May 29, 2014 10:51 am

So you actually really lucked out considering how quickly you got it.

.00075 is a 1 in 1333 chance. (No percent, the number you have is correct without it). So worse than shiny charm breeding, right? About twice as unlikely?

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Thu May 29, 2014 11:06 am

I envy you, I've never been a lucky breeder.

Also no one cares about male or female, it's perfect, you can say you're finished XD

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Thu May 29, 2014 11:11 am

Mademoiselle C wrote:
I envy you, I've never been a lucky breeder.

Also no one cares about male or female, it's perfect, you can say you're finished XD

Still need the NC Timid non-HP one though and also need to see if you guys want the Calm set for Eviolite Roselia or Roserade?

Also why u no want Jolly Sad

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Thu May 29, 2014 11:19 am

I think we're sticking to the two sets given, I did some research into it last night and it needs as much speed as possible, an offensive spikes role is probably the best it can run. It's too fast to go that defensive.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Thu May 29, 2014 11:20 am

Bunselpower wrote:
I think we're sticking to the two sets given, I did some research into it last night and it needs as much speed as possible, an offensive spikes role is probably the best it can run. It's too fast to go that defensive.

Well its still good for Eviolite Roselia so you can use it in the lower tiers?

and we can get them all in different balls. Still need a Nest Ball one and Love Ball seems fitting as well.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Thu May 29, 2014 11:27 am

We're not making 3 sets for something with as little use as Roselia. Yes they are (sorta) viable, but if we start making every possible set that could ever possibly be used for every possible pokemon, we'll never finish this project. Even 2 sets was supposed to be reserved for Pokemon that have many sets that are actually widely used... but that rule is taken very loosely.

But yeah, not 3. Even Tyranitar didn't get 3, and that's probably the Pokemon that has the most possible sets in the whole metagame...

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Thu May 29, 2014 11:28 am

I know we're trying very hard to stay at or below two sets. This is a question for Mademoiselle, and I know what the answers going to be. O.o

Ninja'd. Like a boss.
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BlueDryBones1
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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Thu May 29, 2014 5:46 pm

After all those failed Budews gonna take a break. I should start and hopefully finish Spikes Roselia by tomorrow with any luck.

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PostSubject: Re: [Finished] Budew & Roselia   Fri May 30, 2014 2:17 pm

Got the Spikes set done. Pretty much exactly how I listed it and female.

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[Finished] Budew & Roselia
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